Talent Hub is proud to introduce the third episode of the Talent Hub TV series in podcast format. Here, Talent Hub Director, Ben Duncombe sits down for ‘on the sofa’ chats with inspirational Salesforce professionals to learn more about their fascinating stories and market insight.
This month’s guests, Richard Enojas, Sean Finucane and Gary Breavington from Mav3rik join Ben to tell their story. As a leading cloud solutions and application development provider formed late last year, Mav3rik are currently taking the market by storm. Their stories, both individually and as a team, are inspiring. They share with Ben their thoughts on the Salesforce market, their plans for Mav3rik and more about the unique offerings they are excited to be able to bring to their clients, and what makes them different. Listen here, or if you prefer to read, the entire transcript is below:
Ben: Welcome to Episode 3 of Talent Hub TV. I’m here with Sean, Gary and Richard from Mav3rik. Excited to have the guys here today to hear more about what they’re doing in the Salesforce space, and a little bit about their backgrounds and plans for Mav3rik moving forward. So for the benefit of viewers, could you give us a little bit of an intro about yourselves, and who you are, where you’re from, and how you’re here today I guess.
Sean: Thanks Ben. I’m one of the co-founders of Mav3rik, Salesforce Technical Architect and a Director here in Sydney. So I started in my Salesforce career around seven years ago at this stage, moved over to Australia almost four years ago to date, and yeah, working closely with the co-founders and partners here today.
Gary: I’m Gary, I’ve been in the Salesforce space now for about ten years. I started back in the UK almost straight out of University, and moved here to Australia four years ago and joined these guys at the start of this year. In my position I’m mostly doing architecture, although I sometimes get my hands dirty with the code. Yeah so that’s my position really, to help build the company, build the Architecture practice, and deliver projects.
Richard: So my background is, I came by way of Siebel CRM, so I did lot of that work in APAC for the last 15 or so years before then moved into the ecosystem, so I actually got involved in Salesforce in 2011, so joined in Salesforce in Melbourne as the second Technical Architect there, yeah and been working in that space ever since, and co-founded the company with Sean late last year, end of last year, so now just starting to form this new team.
Ben: Sure, so late last year Mav3rik was off the ground, but how did you all kind of, how did you cross paths, how did Mav3rik come about?
Richard: Yeah, so I got to work closely with Sean probably about three, four years ago, when I was still running the mobile and emerging tech practice in Salesforce services, so got into a couple of engagements and worked together there, and realised we had similar sorts of interests and motivations as individuals, and yeah basically got along. I think Gary and I met earlier than that actually, just from interactions in the Technical Architecture space as well as, yeah, I think we’ve collaborated on few things as well. So yes, that’s what led to us collaborating and interacting together and actually building this team.
Ben: And so obviously you mentioned you’re from a Siebel background originally. What about the other two? So where did you, how did you fall into Salesforce and what attracted you?
Sean: I actually originally worked for Salesforce, I finished up a Software Engineering degree, a Masters in Ireland and actually got introduced to Salesforce by a neighbour of mine, and a Director within Salesforce, and during that time, and for being out of Uni, I was involved in delivering technical pre-sales pieces of work as well, so I got exposure from a lot of enterprise deals there, and yeah. When I started at Salesforce it was a very kind of a start-up culture, it was fantastic. And yeah, so did that for three years before I moved over to Australia.
Ben: Okay and yourself?
Gary: So I was at a global SI and on a Graduate scheme there. I finished Uni and had my final year accredited and thought “what do I do now?” So at that point there were people from companies coming around promoting their graduate schemes, and there was one in particular that I thought “that sounds actually like what I do”, I get to work in different technologies, different projects, different customers and I kind of figure out as I go along, which is a great way of getting exposure because straight out of Uni, you don’t necessarily know what is out there, and then that program is designed to last for a year to two years, depending on what happens with you and the projects you work on and where you want to go. And at that time, they were starting up a SaaS practice, they’d had people from their Oracle business division realise that “Hey, Siebel’s having a bit of a hard time, and there’s this thing called Salesforce” and they got in early, and so yeah, got speaking with those guys and it seemed like the right fit. It was just exciting and new, and so, yeah, been doing it ever since.
Ben: And Richard, you’re Siebel, and then straight into Salesforce themselves right?
Richard: Yeah so I worked for Oracle for a time, probably close to five years before I actually moved into Salesforce. So I was part of a CRM practice and was heavily involved in the Telstra transformation and a few of our clients in Melbourne but yeah, ultimately it just made sense to actually move and grow into the cloud computing space, and I guess Siebel, back in the day, and I’m sure Gary knows this as well, it was the best of breed CRM applications right, it was an on-premise, but everybody else was simply adopting as an application, so it just made more sense to sort of move into the cloud eventually and sort of turn into Salesforce.
Gary: And not to flag it too much, but Siebel guys make great Salesforce developers. The best Salesforce Architect I know, was actually ex Siebel. I usually find that if you’re ex Siebel, well I know where we stand, is usually the case.
Ben: So just to touch on that point, is that from an architectural perspective, or would you say, like a Siebel consultant also is a good person to transition into Salesforce?
Richard: Yeah definitely, architecture, a lot of the functional capabilities are similar, again having come from a CRM domain, but the technology’s slightly different because the software isn’t cloud and there’s a lot more with certain technologies involved with Salesforce. But yeah there’s definitely a lot of things that you can repurpose from your background knowledge from Siebel into Salesforce. I think the other thing for me was really the exposure to, because Siebel’s being adopted as an enterprise software solution for your clients, in larger enterprises, I think that served me well to then transition.
Ben: And did you anticipate the growth back then when you all made the jump into Salesforce? Did you see that kind of taking off the way it has?
Richard: Yeah definitely, I mean when I first moved, I was really impressed with the software, the product, and how customers were really adopting it and in the feedback that they were giving us from Salesforce, so I think I knew it was just a matter of time before they broke through and actually got adopted in a more, you know, sort of mainstream sort of space and adopted by large enterprises.
Ben: So that was obviously a few years ago now, so how has the platform evolved?
Richard: I’m sure everybody shares the same sentiment. There’s just so much more, in the platform now, in terms of capability. It used to be just Sales Cloud and a bit of Service Cloud, but now, you know the platform itself has so much functionality. And the clouds have increased, there’s what, 11 or so Clouds now? Yeah there’s just so much things in there. I mean Gary and I might have been doing architecture for a while and are CTAs, but even ourselves are still learning new things every day, so yeah, there’s just so much in there.
Ben: So what are you all most excited about, because it is not slowing down, the evolution and progression of the platform is out of control, so what’s exciting for you, and in the coming months?
Gary: I think, I was at Dreamforce a couple of years ago, and I can’t remember which talk I was at, but you could join the dots, and you realise that okay, they’re preparing for scale. So at the moment, Salesforce, obviously the scale of their data centres, and all of the customers that they’re serving, it’s huge right? I sat down, like “wow, you’ve got big objects coming in, I think it might have been when Einstein Analytics, Wave as it was then, was announced, or the year after, and you could just start to see these things across the platform, and you still see it today, things like platform events. I also see how open Salesforce Engineering are. They have a medium channel which they post a lot of stuff they talk about, the technology that underpins all that stuff, and you’re talking large-scale, so from for me, know at the moment people might still think of it as CRM, Sales, Service, that kind of thing. But where can we go with a platform that can scale at huge, huge numbers, certainly from my experience personally, my first projects that I worked on, and delivered, you know, governor limits, having to work within certain confines, and there wasn’t really anything you could do about it, but they’ve always built the governor limits but they’ll be other things you can do now, that you just wouldn’t have been able to do five years ago.
Ben: Okay, yourself?
Sean: They’ve got a product for most use cases, it’s a scalable application, Heroku – Salesforce own Heroku for instance, a very scalable application, that we’re seeing a lot of traction here in Australia at the moment for that, which is a very exciting, and whether it’s building a mobile solution or a highly scalable web application as well, that will connect seamlessly into Salesforce, there’s almost a product for most use cases for businesses.
Ben: I was going to touch on Heroku because I know that you’re big fans, I see a lot of your content on LinkedIn and I think every time I see something on Heroku, it’s generally you guys that have shared it, so for people that maybe don’t know what Heroku is, or the power of Heroku or maybe the use cases for that, could you kind of give a little bit of insight?
Richard: It’s a platform as a service, right, so it’s another offering from Salesforce, as Sean mentioned, that a lot of it is scalable, especially in catering for B2C sort of use cases. The good thing about Heroku is that it actually is, it supports multiple languages under development, so people that don’t
necessarily work on, you know, your traditional core sort of development, whether is it sort of Visualforce or any of those things, and have backgrounds in OJS or PHP or Rails, can apply, you know, certain knowledge and skills, and deploy an app in Heroku. So yeah, that’s one of the advantages there.
Sean: Yeah, most definitely and now, more and more it’s getting tightly coupled to Salesforce with its integration such as Heroku Connect, so like in a matter of minutes you can actually push data or pull data from Salesforce to this scalable application that isn’t just on a per user license model, you basically buy power, so again as Richard said, it’s very suited to the B2C applications, it’s quite exciting.
Gary: It’s scalable in a different way to Salesforce. Salesforce is kind of about scaling out with users, you can put more people in and you can put them in a role hierarchy somewhere and they can carry on using that application, whereas Heroku’s more along the web application side that Richard was talking about, and you get a sort of whole range of options that you can kind of, “okay this is a very small, lightweight process to runs infrequently so we’re going to add a very small set of compute power over a very small thing called Dyno, to something that’s going to require longer running times, more CPU power, and you can buy bigger Dyno, and you know, you scale accordingly. It’s the same with Postgres service, which is essentially storage is a service, it’s database as a service, so again if you’re going to have a database that’s got a lot of users and a lot of queries against it and you can buy a very big instance, you’ll get a machine, with more RAM, and so on and so forth. Likewise you can scale down to something a lot smaller. You’ve just got a blog that nobody reads, posting about whatever you into.
Sean: It’s important to note they definitely complement eachother, Salesforce and Heroku. You get the power of the CRM, you can push that daily and report on it, and do whatever you want, have Salesforce as your management platform, basically, while having Heroku there as your scalable platform to host these applications.
Ben: Another thing I should touch on, is the Mulesoft acquisition. What are your thoughts on that?
Richard: Yeah that’s great, I think everybody was sort of expecting it to be honest, I mean, I personally did. It was just bound to happen just because of the fact, that again, there’s multiple solutions now, there’s multiple systems it could integrate with, when you’re deploying a Salesforce solution so, and Mulesoft is always one of the go-to middleware for those things, so yeah, I think I wasn’t surprised when that happened.
Gary: Well, see, I was. Well, partly because I was at Dreamforce and I’d been to a number of booths to check out some of the new products, and they were all from acquisitions, and they all had ways for pulling in data, for example, from SAP, and I thought there must be so much stuff across Salesforce or what Salesforce now owns, and they could probably put a product together, but having said that I was surprised, it still makes sense. Integration is becoming ever more important, and I think Salesforce will do a really good job of just making it, not necessarily easy; integrations are always one of the bigger challenges you have but certainly about making it a little bit more every day. So I’m really interested to see what they’re going to do with it. Again the other thing was, that it’s, Salesforce have a history of helping partners grow businesses, and then when the time comes, acquiring, and saying “okay, now we want to make this a core part of the platform” and for the acquisitions they’ve done in the past, there was a relationship to CRM, whereas Mulesoft feels much more aggressive. And Salesforce wouldn’t do it for the sake of “fancy buying a company today?” “Let’s go and buy a big one”. So I’m really interested to see how that strategy’s going to play out, and what they going to deliver with it.
Richard: I mean it’s the point in line with the aggressive growth plans right, so I mean the only way they can really achieve those really high targets and with not to mention the numbers here, but I think it’s really just making sure that they’re catering for the large enterprise sort of deployments, implementations, and really having that layer that actually allows them to do those.
Ben: Sure ok, so back to Mav3rik now. So, you’ve been around since the turn of the year, and what would you say, what’s the gap that you’re looking to fill in the market?
Richard: Well I mean, for us, I mean personally with a motivation for us to actually do something and challenge ourselves even more, and that’s what led to us starting the company. But at the same time, when you, I guess with our backgrounds and skills, you have a role to play in growing the ecosystem even more. So for us, again, we’ve got strong CRM backgrounds, but we also have strong platform backgrounds. You know, from the teams that we’ve led in the past, for me it’s generally Salesforce and for these guys I think we definitely have a lot of exposure to the platform side, and not just deploying CRM business applications, so I think that’s partly our focus as a company. We’re not necessarily saying we’re not going to do the traditional sales and service sort of implementations, I think there’s still room for that, but I think we can offer more. And I guess for us, it’s also just in general, we want to give back to the community. So it’s about helping increasing capacity overall, especially in APAC which we’re struggling with right now. But it’s also about raising the bar a little bit, because the scale needs to be there, but you also still have to maintain a quality of resources that are working in this ecosystem, so I think that’s where we can contribute too.
Ben: Yeah and I mean, I’ve seen obviously, you’ve grown quickly, you’ve got I think you mentioned eleven or so people already, and when we’ve had interactions around recruitment, you haven’t necessarily been looking for just your standard Salesforce Developer. You’ve been a bit more flexible and looked at different skillsets you can bring into the market, and so why has that been your approach, and how have you found that approach I guess?
Sean: Firstly, I see the market under resourced at the moment. I see, from my experience, I see a lot of developers, they don’t necessarily know about Salesforce, or want to become Salesforce Developers, but with the tooling such as DX, and as I said, Heroku. Once you get those people on board, with a good team behind them as well, and yeah, they really see the benefit of actually becoming Salesforce Developers.
Ben: So what’s the, a lot of our clients are resistant, and I guess it’s because they don’t have people like yourself. So, like an end-user company, they don’t have the resources to be able to train and guide these people that they’re transitioning. You touched on Siebel earlier being a good, kind of training ground for people moving into Salesforce, but people are resistant to do that, pull them in. So how have you found people coming from a non Salesforce background? What’s the lead time to get these guys up and firing?
Sean: Well I suppose it’s just about the support they get as well, they get very strong technical resource from the top, we work as a close team together, so if someone comes on they’ll be onboarded slowly, given the training, we don’t just have a sales driven culture, we have a very technical driven culture, where we would want people to come on board to achieve, whether it’s their certifications, their badging, and just yeah, build up that momentum internally that they’ll succeed.
Richard: Yeah, I think going to that point I think, when we formed the team, the plan has always been to form a core team of really strong resources, I mean Sean and I, and Gary, you know, come from a technical architecture background, and we knew that we were not going to sort of just pull everybody into the team and it’s again, building around that with, you know, the people that are outside of the ecosystem and then mentoring and coaching them through. I mean for me personally, when I moved to Salesforce, how I actually got in was I really just got thrown into the deep end straight away. So, I mean, I know for some people, that might not necessarily be effective, but for me getting thrown into a project straightaway, where you don’t necessarily go into an onboarding process, or a full-fledged training program or whatever, I think that just forced me to sort of actually pick it up, and learn, and really, yeah I guess..sink or swim. To me, that’s one effective way of actually bringing people on board. With the right support structure.
Ben: Yeah, I think that’s the key, because you don’t want to throw someone in, and they just sink.
Richard: I think the other thing that plays into it is the personal motivation of the individual. So what we look for is the right mindset, the right reasons that they want to join us for. If we see that there’s that motivation in there, then it helps, because you’re going to keep pushing yourselves to do better, to do more, to actually learn what you don’t know already.
Sean: I agree, it’s not just about their skill set they’re coming in with. Most definitely it’s around their passion and motivation. And with a good team behind them, they’ll succeed very quickly.
Ben: And you mentioned about people maybe not always wanting to transition into Salesforce. So, we see a lot of people wanting to make the move but not always the most technical people. So why do you think that is? Why do you think some of them, the kind of heavyweight coders out there in other languages don’t all you see Salesforce as the coolest platform?
Richard: I mean I think part of it, is like Sean mentioned, the tooling. It wasn’t really there before, and the reason why DX came along is they wanted to enhance that developer experience, that made it really more palatable I guess, for the pure developers to actually adopt. And have a lot more seamless integration to your open source technologies, and working with VCS and CI CD tooling as well, so that helps a lot. I think slowly people are getting more aware. But at the same time, Salesforce has always been known as a, initially, a low code platform, right, so that serves more of those citizen developers, the non-technical developers. So yeah, I guess there’s a bit of that now playing into it as well.
Gary: I think as well, it’s partly a cultural thing. Salesforce and their solutions are opinionated. In the past when Salesforce has said about how much quicker app development is with the
Salesforce platform, a lot of that’s down to the fact that “this is the way that you do things” And it’s got the tools to do those things really, really well. Some people, they want control over every aspect, so for a very hardcore developer, who’s used to, you know, reading about some new library on Hacker News, and working out how they can put it into their latest project, or what they’re going to do with it at the weekend. That can be a little bit alienating that you come in and it’s like “this is the language you use”, “this is how you go about building things, and if you need to do these things, then you do them this way”. So I think that’s probably why some of the resistance is, and it comes back to sort of a cultural fit, you know, people who can recognise that, “okay I can give up on some of those choices, but you know, I’m going to be working in a technology that’s highly sought after by businesses, because that’s what businesses care about, they care about outcomes, and therefore it delivering on those outcomes quicker, so if I can trade that bit, for you know, then I can make a career out of that.
Ben: So do you see the traditional skill sets changing now? Can a Salesforce Developer just be an Apex coder, or do they need experience with other languages now to stay relevant I guess?
Sean: Yeah but I think that’s a big mistake that I’ve seen in the past. There’s not just a Salesforce Developer. There’s now, with Introduction for Lightning which has been around for quite a while, and it’s got significant improvements. You have your, potentially you have a front-end developer, and your back-end developer, for Apex or that combined together.
Ben: Okay, so you think that’s been a mistake of people, that they haven’t been perhaps been adaptable enough to pick up these new languages?
Sean: Yeah I don’t think it was a limitation, but you need that mix, you need that mix of front-end developer and a back-end developer, or else two combined, you actually create these user friendly applications.
Ben: And what about the more functional roles? Do you see those changing, with the platform changes?
Richard: I think the ones that come from a CRM background, whether it be Siebel or some other CRM product, I think, yeah, they can easily transition to sales and service cloud roles. But what we’re seeing more now in the platform space is that in use cases that are not just sales and service. So, anybody that’s done pretty much a functional role before, that is gathering requirements for a specific use case, you know, should be able to actually, you know, pick up the Salesforce as a technology.
Gary: I think the functional roles have changed quite a bit as well, like, you know, it used to be you’d have your functional people doing sales and the service side, and then you’d have the developers do the advanced customisations that you couldn’t do as a Functional Consultant without having to code, and now I see the product set is so much more expanded. Field Service Lightning and the CPQ, and more and more emphasis on you billing. These are all things that Functional Consultants have to get across and certainly for me, like when I went to Salesforce, there was Sales Cloud. And Service Cloud was being ramped internally at Salesforce so were encouraged to do things there, but, and it always felt like for a long time, that’s what, you sort of operated in, Sales, Service platform.
Now you’ve got these sort of new products coming in, and, with it, addressing more business scenarios, and hangs that whole point of the Functional Consultant is not just understand the product, but understand how that product interacts in an environment so, yeah, good luck Functional Consultants, you’ve got some learning to do. But yeah, it’s an interesting time for them as well. Sure.
Richard: I think the last thing I want to add is again, it serves you well if you’re a functional person, if you actually slowly try to pick up a bit of the technical side as well, so just, not necessarily coding yourself, but actually understanding what needs to be coded and what doesn’t, and just getting across that as well a little bit will definitely help.
Ben: Okay. And correct me if I’m wrong, but I’ve heard that Mav3rik have the second highest number of CTA’s in Australia, is that correct?
Richard: Outside of the Salesforce team, I guess.
Ben: Yeah, from the Partners.
Richard: Yeah, we think so, yeah.
Ben: And, I mean pretty much every technical and functional person that we speak to now, has the aspiration to be a CTA. It’s on everyone’s kind of roadmap and plan, and we feel, or we get told often, by people in the market, that they have to work in big enterprise projects or work for a big SI in order to achieve that goal. Do you think that’s true? Is that the case?
Gary: No, I think ultimately what it comes down to, and it’s very clear now with the way the program is set up is that there are specific areas that you need to know back to front, and so if you can get exposure on projects that are in those areas, or include those areas, you don’t have to have everything but you might be doing one project at one part of the year that’s very tricky around sharing and security, and another time you may be doing something where there’s huge volume. Sometimes you’ll have projects that involve both, but yeah, I don’t think
those are exclusively the domain of big customers and big SI’s. Certainly, I have worked at – this is going out on LinkedIn, so people will be able to click through and see who I am, and say “hang on one second, he’s got a long history of working with SI’s”, but you know it’s not just about that, there are customers out there that are doing tricky things, and so there are opportunities to do that. Of course, the bigger customers are going to have more of them going on at the same time, and they do tend to pop up with bigger SI’s because they need the scale, but that’s not to say that there’s not opportunity out there because there absolutely is.
Richard: I mean the other thing to add is really, that it’s not the size of the project, it’s again, the exposure that you get from the different domains that you need to be aware of, and get across so that you can get the CTA credential. So, I think, again, from my experience it’s about working on the slightly smaller projects but actually working on all those different domains and actually handling identity and integration yourself, and being really hands-on, but at the same time, you know, being able to engage with the architects from the client side. So, I think having that exposure actually is what you need to sort of, seek out, in terms of experience, and that doesn’t necessarily just come out of the big engagements with clients.
Gary: And just to add to that, actually, as I was studying for the CTA, there were parts that I hadn’t done in a while, and I had to go in and I mean, just sort of get my hands dirty with it, and you can spin these things up, and okay, you don’t need to have an instance of SAP, and an instance of Salesforce, and an instance of Active Directory to set up single sign-on. Just get two developer orgs and get them working and you can read an article, there’s some great articles out there, great blog post content, explaining the SAML flow, and you can read about that stuff and that’s great, but actually if you take advantage of those resources, you can actually try some of this stuff yourself, and actually think “okay, so these are something” and CTA certification or not, that’s going to help you in your career either way, you know, being able to say, “yeah, actually I can set up single sign-on” between Google and my Salesforce instance.
Richard: But if you do work for a big team, a big SI for example, it’s really up to you to put your hand up, and take on things that you haven’t done before. So, you know, if you’ve had a lot of work doing integration, and you keep just doing integration, it doesn’t really help you. So, I think putting your hand up, and actually taking on new things, and challenging yourself to be across the other domains, yeah, I think that would be a good way to prepare for it.
Ben: Okay yeah that makes sense. So, what would you like Mav3rik to be known as in the market? When people talk about Mav3rik, what you want them to be talking about?
Sean: Yeah, we want to be known to push boundaries in the technical sense, for a lot of our solutions as well, some Partners, they might shy away from more complex, mobile connected, Salesforce connected solutions. As I said again, Heroku solutions. We want to be known as “these guys are very comfortable taking on these pieces of work”. We also want to be known to have really a great culture, not just a sales culture, but a culture that’s actually going promote the growth of our internal employees to really succeed to the maximum level, and so they can achieve, be it their CTA, or any other streams they want to go after. We want to be known in the market that we’re a close team together, and we help each other succeed.
Richard: And not just internally, I guess, I mean, part of the motivation again is to still be able to give back to the community, right. We’ve got to the point where we are, because of Salesforce as a company, as an ecosystem, so being able to help others to get to where they want to get to as well, through you know, whether it be sharing knowledge, through you know, Dev groups, User groups, or any of those events, but at the same time, I’m still helping with some of the programs around CTA’s or there anything like that, so again, we want to achieve our objectives as a company, but we still want to be able to give back and contribute back to the community.
Ben: Sure, and you mentioned progression internally for people, so is the plan to have more CTAs from your ranks pushing through, and are you putting together an internal mentoring program around that?
Richard: Sean…hashtag, no pressure!
Sean: Most definitely. CTA enablement programs are currently being put together and are in place, and we’ve already a few team members, that, some of them maybe will achieve it this year, so yeah, we want to most definitely support that and anybody else that wants to come on board, that’s passionate enough, that has the right attitude, they will get that support.
Richard: I think a lot of it comes out of informal discussions, and things that we do is as a team, right, when working together on projects or any of those things, that there’s this mentorship happening there, without necessarily you calling it that explicitly, right, but at the same time we want to have a bit more of that formal sort of coaching and mentoring through, you know, a series of, workshops or one on one coaching exercises, yeah.
Ben: Okay, and final question, what does Mav3rik look like in five year’s time?
Sean: What does it look like in two weeks? Yeah, we want to be known in the marketplace to really produce quality work, and in a couple of year’s time, we want to be known in the marketplace, where people, or team members who have come on board, and have really advanced their career and really succeeded. So, we want, most definitely, we want to see that probably in the mid-term, not just in the long term, and in the long term just producing some quality work and really pushing the boundaries of what we can do in the Salesforce ecosystem.
Richard: Yeah I think size-wise, we’re not trying to be a really massive SI because I think for us, culture is so important so we just want to maintain a good size with a number of people and still have that really good team culture internally. Yeah, we’ve got a number or so in mind, that we just want to hit and then almost stay that way, or keep it that way, just to be able to maintain the scale, and support our engagements but at the same time not necessarily sacrifice and lose the things we want to keep.
Ben: Sure, well you are definitely the ones to watch in the market at the moment, so thank you very much for today, and good luck with everything.
Richard: Thank you very much.
Gary: Thank you.
Sean: Cheers Ben
Thank you for watching, and stay tuned for Episode 4, coming soon. If you’re interested in finding out more about Mav3rik and the #wearemav3rik team, then make sure you follow their pages on LinkedIn and Twitter and keep up to date with their blog with insights from the team at Mav3rik Musings.
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